I will provide my thoughts on the changes, as I understand this is a call for feedback before setting the changes in stone.

1) While this is a huge QoL change for some of us, it's also extremely detrimental for many.

There is a case to be said for people that try to challenge dungeons they know they can't beat in time/because of the boss, but that they need the drops from. That's where mob drops come in. Making it so that items only drop at the end means that this is no longer reliable, and although it makes my life much easier when spamming dungeons, I can see it harming players, specially f2p, in the long run.

In all fairness, I understand that this is a huge issue. There is very little that can be done to solve this, and the only thing I can add to it is that making items drop at the end even if you fail the dungeon and/or die (reviving you so you can collect 'em) might give those affected by this change a chance. 

This however means that you have to tally the kills that occur in each dungeon (I know the system can do it, since there is such a thing with "consecutive kills" star, but I do not know how willing the dev team would be to make this change.

2) While I completely agree on making it so that World Bosses don't drop cards, I do not understand the change on the dungeons. It harms no one if I can spam dungeon 8 to get Black Dragon shards. Am I missunderstanding something here?

3) Yes please.

4) I see a small issue here. I have yet to be able to beat an insane of my level. Trying to do elites I can barely get through the door at the first couple when I am about 10 levels ahead.. Won't this make progress almost impossible after they get further buffed? I can see the difficulty spike being too high for a lot of people, I know you want us to team play, but when there's more people, the mobs hit harder too. That means we can easily get oneshoted by anything after it gets buffed. Please consider very carefully how this will affect f2p players. I am talking from the experience of a heavy casher, I wouldn't want to know what f2p will feel like.

5) Does this mean they won't appear in Black Market? That's the only issue I would have with this change myself, as I think them appearing on the Black Market is a great thing, probably one of the best items that can be obtained from there.

6) Fancy stuff!

7) Awesome, more vigor = more stuff we can do.

TL;DR: Overall a pretty nice balance update. It does come with a couple things that concern me, but things seem to be going well. The biggest red flag however is the mention of buffing elite and insane dungeons , which we are already struggling to beat when they're, right now, 10 levels lower than us, let alone if they get buffed.

1) was player requested as they were finding that they were dying a lot in dungeons while autoing because the character would stop and pick up items.

In a team in elite and insane you can revive and continue, originally if one team member died, the dungeon run was considered a failure.

2) dungeon spamming is fine but spam running D8 for black dungeon cards is not going to do much other than waste your vigor as lower level dungeons drop less cards than higher level ones.

4) it all comes down to how players play. Soloing dungeons, specially elite and insane mode dungeons is a challenge, and BR and level actually mean very little in that respect. You could have a very nice BR and be 10 levels higher than the dungeon requirement but if you race into the dungeon with low elemental resistance and are relying on brute forcing your way through a dungeon, then your chances of failing are high.......

Running as a team is better but that also creates its on issues with drop rewards.

5) I will have to check

The issue for me is that the devs are constantly rebalancing the game and I do not always get all of the information. There is actually 12 versions of the game

a key part of RoG is players building up skills and runes to swap out, as each dungeon is different so what may work in one dungeon, may not work in the next.

The shop is nice except it sucks, specifically the daily packs with insane price. not a major problem but like i said it sucks now, small people cant handle too high price reduce the item content maybe then reduce the price.

The VIP privilege go down with the drop rate less than the start of the game. it makes me lose the interest of being a VIP. I've heard something from GM's that this changes is from feedback of players, which is definitely FALSE, no one likes less privilege besides it can help non VIP's grow too 

Good job for looting changes in grinding maps.

Response in regards to no.1 

I had varying experience both good and bad in regards to how the mechanic used to work as well as observing chatter in world chat about it both positive and negative. Here are my thoughts from my own experience. To be perfectly but the previous mechanics and drops / drop percentages or chances made for smoother progression. 

The issue that I observed within world chat wasn't about normal and elite enemies having loot drops specifically, the mindset of the complaint being made by maybe 1-2 player that I personally saw was that they themselves were putting too much emphasis into using auto-attack and never switching to manual. Additionally those same players were trying to run dungeons that they honestly weren't properly geared for making the use of manual tactics (such as manual mob pulls,specific point to point movement into burst damage dps etc..) had they actually tried to use them a mute point.

Response in regards to no.2

Here's what I agree with and what I do not, removing thrall shards / cards from bosses isn't such a bad idea I openly agree that doing so is sense-able, it gives players a reason to use their vigor and farm dungeons. That said I completely  disagree with what has been done to thrall shard / card farming in regards to how the mechanics now work within dungeons and with what was done to thrall shard / card drop % for vip. 

By doing so it has effectively made trying to farm "boss thrall shards" near impossible. Quite frankly being given the excuse of "well you're just unlucky, because I was able to get so & so or Oh well that's just RNG, RNG is suppose to suck" is nothing but complete Bs for one, negatively that will cost you player base because most have little to no patience, and it's just completely rude. Also worth mentioning your personal perspective statement of everyone should be allowed to gain loot from world bosses is wrong, you want to create a team oriented game play styled rpg mmo I understand that, But; this idea of yours about someone just being able to stand there look pretty do nothing help no one just watch and still gain world boss loot? 

No I disagree, code it so that only those who have done 3-5 second minimum or more of consistent damage to the boss can gain loot from it, anyone who doesn't even try to help, they can piss off and get nothing but that idea supports the concept of player on player stealing plain and simple. Oh and by the way there are players who do just that every chance they get and get what that too will cause you to loose player base plain and simple.

Response in regards to no.3

From what I've observed what was suggested was an addition to the earlier mechanics when they were current mechanics, not what we have right now at this moment. When you decided as a developer to change the mechanics to how they are now in dungeons for loot, you completely 

1. broke your own game plain and simple, 

2. You made trying to far for gear impossible plain and simple, 

3. You have players like yourself Kitwritten who claim Oh I ran "x amount" insane dungeons and got "x amount" of gear designs and so many of these or those pieces of gear, first off I personally had ran easily 60+ insane instances over the past 3 days since all of these changes as well as running twice that prior to the changes. 

In 3 days I have not seen a single solitary piece of gear drop that wasn't either white or green in insane mode. for elite or story nothing but at best level 1 blue or all white period. Prior to these changes gear and materials from dismantling were plentiful, right now they're non-existent period. That isn't RNG that isn't "bad luck" that's broken mechanics.

Response in regards to no.4

First off let me re-point out that far to many players have no patience (I personally do but that is besides the point) What I mean is this; 

1. this type of mechanics change from any standard has been set in motion prematurely and is currently flawed at best. 2. it forces team play giving some types of players the ability to steal from everyone else because of the team loot settings. 

3. You mentioned guilds coming out in 2+ weeks, how many impatient players do you think you'll keep within that time, give how these mechanics are making everything more difficult than it needs to ever be in an RNG base RPGMMO browser game? 

4. I disagree with your earlier response considering as gear dependent game based on battle rating, that alone makes it a numbers game, so yes Br and level above the run content as well as skillbook / rune level etc.. very much so effect how easy or very hard content can be whether you're running solo or in a full 3 man squad.

Response in regards to no.5

Running a few days worth of daily's and yes you can farm resource instances, that fine I agree it works. you can gain tickets from the black market sure but who's going to buy them at those prices I sure hell won't it would be a rip off. When you changed dungeon mechanic you made resource instances impossible to solo after a certain level I disagree with this, especially considering this game is brand new and there are enough player base to warrant making it so difficult a grind. 

Again I get it, you would like player to team up and play together, but forcing that issue or idea is wrong and will I assure you backfire. The lack of resources non-existent as drops in dungeon runs is a problem, no less a problem then the fact that the only players I've heard of that have received mythic level gear drops from insane's since this changes are the same players who are and have been since day one the highest geared players on server, and by means the love changes, they've said so themselves. 

Sure they make not like everything or agree with everything but they are in fact the only ones who aren't bothered or irritated or otherwise about how the game has become near impossible to progress in but hey if I where vip 6+ and had a Br of 130k after only a few weeks after release maybe not likely but maybe my perception would be different too.

Response in regards to no.6

I have no response or current care about skins in game other than the curiosity to ask do these skins afford "x amount" of Br and or stats increase?

Response in regards to no.7

Oh hey the Vip section of response yay. First off as a vip 4 player, yes you've managed to piss me off I admit, and still I have supported your game; it has potential if you don't screw it up, like you're starting to. Vigor actually is easy to gain, and you don't necessarily blow thorough it as fast as some players suggest you do. It isn't worth buying for damn sure even if you did drop the price some (I have no experience with this because I won't buy vigor) but the base amount is still 100 diamonds so you aren't going to be buying all that much of it ever. 

The Vip specific changes are at best a disgrace. What I mean by this is simple, the percentage chances changes are joke and are broken, the only thing any vip player ever said about changes to vip was fixing the broken xp gain, by broken I mean there was no xp gain. Sure you adding in the vip level rewards, that's nice but that could have been put in earlier. To be honest to only up side for even considering being vip at this time with how the game is at this time is vip 4 gaining the thrall slot, vip 6 gaining the thrall slot. 

That's damn near it, nothing more, because it now take having to be vip 9 to 10 to see thrall shards the way it was prior to these changes when vip 4 had the same % as the now vip 9. My point is this, anyone who is vip 4 or higher as of these now mechanics changes will feel ripped off, those few who were vip 4+ prior, they don't care because they already gained what they wanted before you changed things.

I am going to write this as a GM report rather than addressing specific things, just to save me some time... the reason why I am not around much recently is I had a car accident and are recovering from deep bruising, cracked ribs and  stitches in my head....thank you drunk driver not stopping at a intersection and slamming into our car at speed.

so I will write this up in the hope it will answer a lot of questions

ok.... the idea that the changes were based on player feedback, is not true ?

Open testing of ROG was done 2 times before ROG was officially opened, we rely on PMs, world chat, tickets, forums, FB. we also have QQ and and wechat rooms where players can talk with the devs directly, something that is very rare in gaming,  and also the devs are active on servers talking with players, the game has been changed multiple times when S1 opened, it was version 550, last update was version 599 but yes we do want to stop with the big game changes and work more on the version updates like guilds and fashions......

BUT we also rely on what we see happening in the servers... and one thing that players do need to realise, is we know any changes are going to be positive in some players eyes and complete rubbish in others..... it comes down to individual playing preference...but there is generally 3 golden rules to gaming:

1/ any game is a pay to win game if it gives an advantage to cashers: I will always say pay to win is a player style, not a game style.... just because you pay, does not mean you will win...... players with brains will beat players with wallets a lot of the time....or as I tend to do... outlast them........

2/ the devs only care about money, not the players: I swear players copy and paste that one....  yes the devs have to create games that make money, if they don't, they have no job.....

We have to balance the game for future servers and cross world playing....so changes are intended just to change current game play but also future game play... guilds are intended to involve teamwork for the best advantages so we are trying to lay the foundations for that now......

teamwork in dungeons is always going to be a problem as some players had stated they are tired of running dungeons with players that suck and should not be running dungeons at the levels they are..... I get that, I have had to deal with the same thing, its why I tend to run dungeons solo now......

I had the privilege of viewing a player talking with other players about how they did not need some items so the other players in the team were welcome to grab item scrolls and items..... I grinned like a idiot seeing that as thats how we see the idea of teamwork in the game.... but yes there is truth in the fact that some players just want team mates to help them in dungeons so they can get all the items they need themselves.....

we are addressing concerns over the drop rate by buffing them but as explained to players, RNG is a right pain in the ass, we can buff drop rates but the RNG can still appear to be negative for some players and positive for others.

Yeah I had a good run but I was open about the fact its RNG and my luck sucks at times. I would rather have item scrolls drop than items.... as I use scrolls to craft the gear I want... but that also means its going to cost me for upgrade stones and knowing the cost of the higher level gear as I do..... forward planning by the dev team is needed otherwise players are going to hit a seriously painful wall

On that note, we are also trying to address the amount of upgrading players need to do..... the change from a single merc to thrall, definitely did address the issue of the merc spending more time dead than alive, was dealt with.... but then it created the much larger need for items and upgrade stones and resources......

boss thrall cards are intended to be rare.... we messed up and flooded the game with boss thrall cards which had completely the opposite effect of which we were aiming for.

Guild shop should help balance things out better for players..... the issue for us is the players are seeing the here and now, we are seeing 2 versions ahead and a very much expanded game which should resolve a lot of issues... and knowing our luck, create a lot more issues lol....

the guild and fashion systems.... last update I had, guilds are two weeks out from completion, fashion is also coming up fast. the issue with guilds is we are trying not to fall into the trap of having guilds just as a oversized team where 1/3 of players do the work while 2/3s reap the rewards, so we are looking at limiting guild member sizes and also instead of having players contribute to guilds, that the contribution comes from running dungeons, the more run, the higher the contribution to the guild, the response to that, was it was not fair on cashers that could not run as many dungeons and would have a lower contribution, so we looked at buying contribution in shops, which resulted in the response that cashers could just buy their way to a top guild based on contribution.......

skins and fashion, currently there are items in the game that have skins ( pretty shiny items ) but with stats the same as other items, something that resulted in questions of why do they have the same stats, answer: they are skins, not unique items.....response: thats rubbish, they should have better stats.....

Black market: If I had a $1 for every time that was reported as bugged because of the prices....... lol.... the prices are random, the black market works outside of the shop and is intended to mirror the way that players use markets, with some offering cheaper deals and others hoping that somebody is desperate enough for a item, they would pay top dollar...... and have me saying HUH ? what were you smoking ??????

Resource tickets can be gained from the crusades by talking to the princess in town and doing the 10 daily crusades......

We want RoG NOT to be a game where its players vs GMs/devs but where the titles do not matter, we are all players, all gamers and this is our gaming community.

players will need to be patient while we do work through bug reports as we get a lot of them, not just for ROG either....and in regards to the vip exp gains, I have asked, that will be rechecked but that was changed and fixed a few versions ago.....

while players see vip as the way of getting thrall slots, free players can unlock them by leveling up......

gear drops will be buffed but as each dungeon is different, changing one set of numbers is not going to result in the drops players want to see...... at the higher level dungeons, mythic level gear is harder to find.....

while players may feel that the top players are overpowered, the truth is they are very weak in game terms as the higher level dungeon npc are very strong.....we had to nerf the dungeons right down as testers at level 100 with full emperor level gear, max gems etc, were getting one hit in insane level 70 dungeons.....

if players that are level 60-70 are only using noble gear and almost at dungeon 70, we need to revise if we nerfed them too much..... thats not a dig at players, its a concern because we do not want to have to stop expanding the game sideways and outwards, in order to add new dungeons.....we have already delayed the version update a number of times in order to make player requested game changes.....

and if players are doing that well in dungeons, well done... it shows that some players have very good minds and gaming skills...... respect where respect is due.....and yes while cashing makes it easier..... the simple reality is the dungeons require brains to pass, brute force does not always work.

now that I have rambled on like a senile old man, ( shaddup S1. surreal ) I will get sorted with other work ..

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